Greetings, and I hope that everyone has a happy, birdy, Easter weekend. So
after reading what follows, I suggest to everyone to let's all take a
breath and go birding for a while...except for me...I have to work today
and tomorrow for 12 hours a day...so you guys have fun, on me. :-D

What follows is how I feel on this matter and after much thought and
rewriting, I am going to try and keep this brief.

Bill there is no one I know in Ohio that is more passionate about birding
than you.  That is both good in some ways...and bad in some ways.

As such  a well respected representative of the birding community,  people
who are birders and non birders alike, see you and form opinions of the
birding community as a whole.  When you go out, how you behave reflects on
the rest of us.  What you post here is recorded for all time online for
anyone to read in the future.

As a near recent  example to what I am speaking,  a couple of seasons ago,
we had the opportunity to play host to a Reddish Egret.  And as I remember,
instead of backing off, you refered to a person who was just doing his job,
as a member of a WWII political group who were responsable for genocide
which you did apologize for...but yeah, you get hot and say things that you
shouldn't sometimes.
In previous years, I had a friend that started posting and was having
issues with formatting and such, and instead of an encouraging note, and
some words of advice, you (privately) proceeded to tear apart his posts.
He contacted me,  I contacted you privately and asked you to just cut the
new guy some slack, and instead of saying "you may be right", and an
apology to my friend, I got a three paragraph response saying how you were
right, and he was wrong...so yeah, you do send emails sometimes that bring
people down, instead of encouraging them.

So as a member of the general community, I ask you and EVERYONE else to
reread the rules.  There is a part that says in effect that if what you are
saying in public (or in private) could be misconstrued or divisive, then
step back and think if what you are writing will improve or hamper the
birding community as a whole...and maybe rewrite it.

This is all I am saying on the matter, public or privite, and I suggest to
everyone the same.

:-D...and also I had Red-headed Woodpeckers at Lawrence Woods SNP until
some dangerous (to the public) trees were cut down, so we will see if they
return this  year...

As always,

Happy birding and God bless.

Steve J
On Mar 24, 2016 8:33 PM, "Dean Sheldon" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Apologies for entering the fray.....however, in my 60 years of birding
experience, Bill Whan stands out in many ways. He is, in every way, a
superior birder. Beyond that, he is a perfectionist in the matter of bird
sightings here in Ohio. I have worked with him twice regarding the presence
of Harris' Sparrow for a short winter visit here on our conservation area
in south central Huron County. Years ago, at Sheldon's Folly [now Sheldon
Marsh SNP] near Huron, we had the good fortune of having a Harris' Sparrow
spend a full two years on that property....and we consulted with Bill on
that unusual happening for the entire time. All of us depend on Bill and
his extraordinary gifts...no matter how direct and penetrating his comments
may be from time to time. Many thanks, Bill, and keep on twitching. Dean
Sheldon [Greenwich, OH]

From: Ohio birds [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Femme Metal
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 6:31 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [Ohio-birds] Attacking listers

Bill,
I personally hope you continue posting here.  You often provide interesting
and more in depth information about birds beyond the what, where and when
information that many, including myself, tend to post.

I think your "Awareness" statement very much applies to many birders and
didn't take it as intended to insult listers per se but more as a statement
about the lack of discussion of thoughtful in depth information about
species on this forum as time goes on.  Maybe I had that perspective
because I'd read through the thread about that specific topic - hearing
from long time users about how the listserv has changed - not too long ago.

Anyway, I just wanted to throw a positive out there for all to see after so
much negative.
I hope we can all continue to post, share, discuss, and enjoy birds on here
together.

Respectfully to everyone,
Kristen Stillwell





On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 1:35 PM, Bill Whan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Alex--
>        Jeremy took offense at a few words I wrote a couple of days ago:
> "Awareness of such things is something the average lister often lacks,"
> referring to some interesting information Casey Tucker supplied to the
> list. You agree with him that my remarks were grievous put-downs of
> other birders: words he used included "sneak," "snide," "ludicrous,"
> "berating," and you used words like "pestering," "bringing down,"
> "flat out bad," "hostile and rude," "crazy," and "wrong."
>        I don't know how to explain this. If I had written "birders"
> instead of
> "listers" might the reaction might have been less venomous?  Are my
> contributions to this list so offensive to so many readers? I think I
> have made many contributions to the study of Ohio birds, and I don't
> think I've used any of the words quoted above, but their use by others
> makes me reconsider participating in this forum.
> Bill Whan
> Columbus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/24/2016 10:54 AM, Alex Eberts wrote:
>
>> I strongly agree with Jeremy's sentiment. I enjoy a knowledgable
>> discussion as much as the next guy, but constantly using this as a
>> platform to sneak in a snide comment berating listers as being less
>> skilled birders is simply ludicrous. Being a birder and being a
>> lister are most definitely not mutually exclusive, and I think it's
>> high time they stopped being treated as such.
>>
>> Bird on!
>>
>> Alex Eberts
>>
>> On Mar 24, 2016, at 9:25 AM, jeremy <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill Whan,
>>>
>>> I was reading an interesting subject about the possibility why
>>> Red-headed Woodpeckers might not be in a certain place and you
>>> quickly decided to take this subject and single out listers. By
>>> pestering or bringing down people through this list serve is flat
>>> out bad for birding. You are the reason people might be afraid to
>>> contribute something to this listserve. You come off hostile and
>>> rude. I'm a new birder(less than 2 years), I jumped into this with
>>> the idea of "how many species can I see" aka listing. I consider
>>> myself a birder and a lister. I don't care if you watch birds in
>>> your backyard or travel to see a "rare" bird we all need to stick
>>> together. To say that listers are less knowledgable is kind of crazy
>>> to me. I love an interesting discussion about bird distribution and
>>> I also love a rare bird sighting but you always saying how listing
>>> doesn't bring good to birds is wrong. We contribute in so many ways.
>>> Please take that into consideration the next time you want to single
>>> out a specific group of birders.
>>>
>>> Bird on!
>>>
>>> V/r
>>>
>>> Jeremy Dominguez Greene Co. Ohio
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>> __
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society.
>
>> Please consider joining our Society, at
>>> www.ohiobirds.org/site/membership.php. Our thanks to Miami
>>> University for hosting this mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at:
>>> listserv.miamioh.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions
>>> or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _____________________________________________________________________
>> _
>>
>>  Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological
>> Society. Please consider joining our Society, at
>> www.ohiobirds.org/site/membership.php. Our thanks to Miami University
>> for hosting this mailing list.
>>
>>
>> You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at:
>> listserv.miamioh.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or
>> comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society.
> Please consider joining our Society, at
> www.ohiobirds.org/site/membership.php.
> Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list.
>
>
> You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at:
> listserv.miamioh.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS
> Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]
>

______________________________________________________________________

Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society.
Please consider joining our Society, at
www.ohiobirds.org/site/membership.php.
Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list.


You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at:
listserv.miamioh.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS
Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]

______________________________________________________________________

Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society.
Please consider joining our Society, at
www.ohiobirds.org/site/membership.php.
Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list.


You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at:
listserv.miamioh.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS
Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]

______________________________________________________________________

Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society.
Please consider joining our Society, at www.ohiobirds.org/site/membership.php.
Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list.


You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at:
listserv.miamioh.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS
Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]