Tracey, After pointing out the ample bag limits for several species of waterfowl, you stated that, "These numbers could really start to add up!!!!" That would be so only if several things were to happen. First, you must presume that there are hoards of hunters actively pursuing these species. That, however, is not so. Secondly, you must presume that most hunters take their limit on each of multiple hunting trips. This is the real crux of the issue. Only a few hunters are able to take the bag limit in the first day's hunt, and things get much more difficult on following days after most wild waterfowl (except for the urban, quasi-domestic geese) have been shot at once or twice. To determine the hunter take, you can't multiply the number of duck stamps times the number of hunters times the allowed bag limits. Do not presume that every licensed hunter in the field takes his or her bag limit every time he or she goes out. As a birder searching for rare spring migrant warblers, do you see a comprehensive list of all the "good" warblers each time you go out in May? It's worse for hunters. The weather has to just perfect (which is imperfect). The birds have to be moving in just the right areas. Remember, unlike birders moving across numerous counties looking for a rare bird, waterfowl hunters are confined to a boat or blind at a single location (which they usually enter before sunrise). The desired prey has to come to them. With birders, it's the other way around, where the birds are pursued at various locations. Sleep well. North American waterfowl are in no danger from hunters. It was they, in fact, primarily through Duck Unlimited, who began a successful wetlands appreciation and conservation program that has resulted in the termination of wetlands drainage and other losses. Before Ducks Unlimited, wetlands were wastelands of malarial mosquitoes and disease-causing miasmata. Unlike birders, these hunters put their money where their interests were and fully supported and promoted the taxing of guns and ammunition to yield wetlands and conservation land development. Remember that the next time you venture to see a rare warbler at Magee Marsh, a giant wetland purchased using Pittman-Robertson hunting tax funds. Every one of these hunters out in the blinds eagerly pays for not only a small game hunting license, but also duck bird stamp, along with the special conservation taxes on their firearms and ammunition. It's not 1958 anymore. Back in the earlier parts of the 20th century, every kid on a farm had a .22 rifle and 12-gauge shotgun, and a lot of protected birds were illegally shot. There was a lot of poaching and illegal targeting of protected species. A few of these poachers took more than the provided bag limits (when they could find that many birds). But today, this slimy, illegal taking of wildlife is fast disappearing. Instead of a 12-gauge, today's illegal "hunter" has his thumbs wrapped around a computer gaming device. He's electronically shooting digital spacecraft, not snow geese, even in Ohio's rural areas. That's the greater concern. We are raising an entire generation of Americans who don't even know what a snow goose (or even a house sparrow) is. These are the same people who (like a lot of birders, incongruously) fail to support taxes on binoculars, bird feed, and other measures that could significantly contribute to wildlife conservation in Ohio's third century. And, you ask, who determines these bag limits. It's a long, complicated process involving both the Ohio Division of Wildlife and the US Fish & Wildlife Service. If you'd like, you can attend the annual Wildlife Hearings and formally present your bag limit preferences. But to be considered, they should provide real field numbers and data related to a) the number of game birds living that year in the wild, b) the number of hunting licenses and hunters that will pursue the various species, and c) the life history and field biology of the hunted species. These are the data that are used to set bag limit and possession regulations each year. Anyone who presumes it's a sordid group of pot-bellied, cigar-smoking "good old boys" chalking up big numbers in the backroom of a Columbus nightspot is as out of touch as those who think bird watchers are just little old ladies out in tennis shoes. Game limits are based on sound field science and data. Since all of this began back in the first half of the last century, not a single hunted species in Ohio has become endangered, let alone extirpated, from hunting pressures. Conversely, it has been the deliberate, costly, and self-taxed efforts of the hunting community that has preserved and created wetlands. The birding community would do so well as to prompt conscientious non-hunters to follow suit. All of us, birders and hunters alike, need to support -- monetarily -- wildlands preservation efforts. Without those, all of us might as well grab the game controller and watch or hunt some digital warblers or geese. Habitat is everything. Hunter's kills (except where insufficient, as with Ohio's deer herd) are not a biological or conservation issue. It's the lands, not the guns or binoculars, (although guns are taxed for conservation, and binoculars aren't). Sincerely, John A. Blakeman ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]