Let me remind everyone that a lot of people read this mailing list in digest form, or on Web archives, so you are talking to them here as well as to ohio-birds subscribers. I was pleased to hear from others on this topic. Bill Heck makes an important point that quibbling with the study risks sounding like one disagrees with its intent. I remember as I wrote about the possible cyclical abundances of evening grosbeaks in the east how much my words resembled those of the bad guys, who are always saying nonsense like "Don't worry about the horseshoe crabs; they're just at the low point of a natural cycle!" I continue to think we need to supplement what we learn from studies like the CBC and the BBS with those that might not have the history, but are deeper. Breeding Bird Atlas studies are an example, as are--in a very different way--mass compilations like eBird, especially for the "common" birds that may be increasingly at risk. The BBS protocols don't allow one to wait till that 200-car freight train passes before listening for grasshopper sparrows, but a BBA visit encourages one to do so. And few Ohio CBCs reliably report grasshopper sparrows, needless to say. Casey Tucker supplies some interesting information about how press releases were developed. Apparently the data were adapted to appeal to ordinary folks who may not be familiar with the changes in bird populations. They are of course the majority: I just tried http://stateofthebirds.audubon.org/CBID/ on the National Audubon Web site, and it took me 2 minutes and 19 seconds to get the page--on a cable modem. Unless there's a problem in the internet, the publicity about this study is generating a lot of interest, and that's all for the good. In this case, pinpoint accuracy is less important than stirring concern about bird populations among the general public. I'm not upset about how the study's results were prepared for the media, but readers of this list tend to be a lot better informed than folks who learn about birds from watching TV and reading daily newspapers. Many of our questions are answered by Casey's explanation of how results were tailored to influence less well-informed readers. A decision has been made, and I don't have many arguments with it, that persuading a hundred more or less ignorant but well-meaning folks that birds are disappearing is more important than just repeating the same old story for one of the initiated. Those of us who think about these sorts of things often should probably back off from unconstructive criticisms. If there are some anomalous results, and if results are presented mostly to influence J.Q. Public, maybe it's not a big deal. The motivation is entirely benign. August Froehlich makes this point well. We can wait till its eventual publication in a scientific context, and talk it over then, probably mostly amongst ourselves. Bill Whan Columbus ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. Additional discussions can be found in our forums, at www.ohiobirds.org/forum/. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]