I can't recall reading anything about "T.V.'s" on this forum so I'll risk laughter and report on a personal discovery. I had an hour of discretionary time today and wandered into the parking area at the Lorain Municipal Boat Launch, parking close to the water and setting up my spotting scope. The expected species were in attendance (Ring-billed Gulls, one Great Black-backed Gull panting, a few Bonaparte's, 2 GB Herons, a dozen or so DB Cormorants and a couple Goldfinch) and then I spotted a couple vultures in the NW corner inside the breakwall where a little beach exists. I got all excited when I spotted one red head and then a black head! Could it be a Black Vulture??? DRAT! After consulting Kaufman and Sibley I notice the large amount of brown on the wings of juvenile T.V.'s. They stayed on the ground so I could not see the underwing-patterns. The behavior of the immatures was subservient to the adults while eating (I could not determine what sort of yuck they were enjoying). An adult would suddenly rush a young bird who would promptly bounce away! When nothing 'unusual' passes in front of your optics you can take pleasure in discovering something new about the 'everyday birds' that are around. Regards, Matt Valencic Chagrin Falls, OH ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. Additional discussions can be found in our forums, at www.ohiobirds.org/forum/. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]