So far, this has been a reasonably respectful discussion, and I will try to keep it at that level. I have been banding birds for a little more than two years, and after much intensive training I think I am about to get the hang of it. Even so, I am not qualified to band hummingbirds. In Ohio, I don't know of anyone other than Tim Tolford who has a hummingbird banding program. Alan Chartier is a well-known hummingbird bander in Michigan. Doubtless there are a handful elsewhere in the Midwest, but I am not acquainted with them. Hummingbird banding requires specialized traps, tools, and bands. On the two occasions when I have had hummingbirds in my nets, I have extracted and released them. The point I am making here is that there is not a vast corps of unqualified banders mistreating hummingbirds. The banders who are called in to capture and band out-of-range hummingbirds are highly qualified, very experienced, and equipped with the proper tools to safely capture and process hummingbirds. As for the proposition that banding is harmful to birds, there are hundreds of records of birds carrying bands for ten years or more. A recent article in "The North American Bander" reported the case of a White-eyed Vireo in New York that had been caught 11 times over 9 years. Obviously, neither the mist net interaction nor the band was causing this bird any problems. As a photographer (if I may so dignify myself), I would venture to say that photographing hummingbirds to the standards required to permit aging and sexing is a formidable task. Most of the breathtaking photos one sees in various glossy magazines involve very fast strobe lights triggered by some sort of ingenious electronic device. This is a technology level that is well beyond the capabilities of most of us amateurs. Most of the hummingbird problems in our area are concerned with distinguishing Ruby-throated from Black-chinned and Rufous from Allen's. Anyone not familiar with Peter Pyle's monumental two-volume "Idsentification Guide to North American Birds" should take a look at the section on small hummingbirds. (Your local bird bander has a copy.) The problem comes from the overlapping distributions of the data on wing chord, tail length, exposed culmen, tail fork, width of the fifth rectrix, outer primary shape, relative size of certain primaries, amount of rufous in the tail, and flank color. Photography could probably handle the latter two, but even with a state-of-the-art hummingbird photography setup, I doubt if the photos would capture sufficient detail to allow the fine distinctions in the shapes, proportions, and relative sizes required. There is no substitute for handling the bird and taking actual measurements. Why should we do this? Knowledge of the age and sex of the bird gives us an idea of the source of our strays, the age structure of the population, and the sex ratio, often an indicator of the health of the population. And of course, there is the matter of determinating of whether our stray hummingbirds are just incompetent, or whether there is a real trend here. Winter records of rufous hummers, for instance, are getting so regular they might soon arguably be considered very rare winter residents. Cheers, Bob On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Jackie Augustine < [log in to unmask]> wrote: > Hello all, > > I would like to second Dave's endorsement of bird banding, especially > hummingbird banding. Bird banding is a highly-regulated endeavor, and like > physicians, a bander's first priority is to 'do no harm.' Bird watchers and > scientists would only have a general idea of the movements of hummingbirds > without banding them. Hummingbirds can be quick and inconspicuous during > migration, so occurrence data is of limited use. Here is an interesting > website describing the details of hummingbird banding as well as some > interesting movements of individual birds: > http://losbird.org/bulletin/03newfield.htm > > -Jackie Augustine > Lima, OH > -- Robert D Powell Congress Farm Research Institute Wilmington, OH, USA [log in to unmask] http://rdp1710.wordpress.com Nulla dies sine aves ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. Additional discussions can be found in our forums, at www.ohiobirds.org/forum/. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]