I agree with Bill Whan that it would be a fine thing to see more actual discussion on Ohio-birds, and I have no idea why such discussion doesn't take place. A few times I have posted things that I hoped would spark some discussion, and in those cases I have usually gotten some private responses but often no public responses on the listserve. Seems a little odd. Regarding the Peregrine introductions to urban sites, in areas where they had not been known to nest historically -- I am uneasy about that practice. Sure, we all love Peregrines and love to see them, and a few isolated pairs out of place probably don't have too much impact on the ecosystem, but still ... A couple of years ago I was going out repeatedly to the "sky ponds" east-southeast of Fremont during mid to late summer, when that area had big numbers of shorebirds. It seemed that every time I focused on a big shorebird concentration, a Peregrine would make a pass and flush all the birds. Historically it would have been exceptionally rare for a Peregrine to be around this area in early August, but now the urban birds from downtown Toledo probably make the rounds of all the shorebird spots in n.w. Ohio every day during peak season, repeatedly flushing the birds and adding one more bit of stress to populations that are already facing a variety of challenges. Regarding birds that are shifting, or have shifted, to nesting on manmade structures: I've always been fascinated by this phenomenon. Chimney Swift is a prime example: their propensity for nesting in chimneys was already well established two centuries ago. Purple Martin is a bird that goes both ways: populations in eastern North America practically all nest in houses put up for them, but in the Southwest they still nest commonly in natural cavities. Barn Swallow is another bird that has adapted to our structures in a big way. In years of birding around North America I had seen Barn Swallow nests in barns, of course, and on porches, in sheds, under bridges, in culverts, etc., but until a couple of years ago I'd never seen a Barn Swallow nest in anything that could be considered a "natural" site. When I got to visit West Sister Island out in Lake Erie, I was impressed by a lot of things about this federally-designated wilderness area (the only one in Ohio?), but one of the impressive small things was the presence of Barn Swallows nesting on the cliffs on the east side of the island. The cliffs have enough of an overhang that the nest sites appear to be protected from the elements. It seemed like a hint of the kinds of situations the swallows would have used before we so thoughtfully provided all these structures for them. I would be interested to know: Has anyone found Barn Swallows nesting in truly natural situations elsewhere in Ohio? What about Purple Martin or Chimney Swift? Kenn Kaufman Oak Harbor, Ohio ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. Additional discussions can be found in our forums, at www.ohiobirds.org/forum/. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]