Bill: As a person who is relatively new to birding, I am going to respond to the forum question from that point of view. I would sum it up in four or perhaps five factors: the list, significance, believability, the stupidity factor, and the nature of birders. The List: I have been on it for 1-2 years and it has always appeared to be a way to report sightings, therefore, that is what most people do. I agree it does not have to be this way and the other factors play into this. Significance- Is what one has to say or report significant? For example, I have the good fortune to be watching 5 turkey vulture nests. I enjoy the white powder puffs and have thought of posting a summary of nest locations so that others might have better luck locating one. Is this worth doing? I have not posted therefore I apparently lean towards the insignificant view. Believable? I have found birders to be a somewhat skeptical bunch. How many read "5 vulture nests" and thought, "He is exaggerating." This perhaps comes into play more with sightings. My first "rare" bird was a scissor tail flycatcher. I excitedly called my bird friends and was met with enthusiastic, "No way, not possible!" I knew what I saw but was not confirmed until the next Brooks Bird Club newsletter had a photo of one seen 4 days later 35 miles to the east. Take my six friends and add a whole list of experienced birders and it becomes rather daunting. Stupidity: No one likes to appear stupid. I personally do not care (as evidence I present this post) but many do. One example that I can recall is an individual posted a photo he thought may be a rail. One of the responses was, "I don't now how to break this to you but that bird is a green heron." I do not know if he ever posted again but a more useful response would have been, " The bird is a green heron because...." The nature of birders: The only time I count birds is for CBC and OBBAII, otherwise I observe their behavior as well as look for plants, lichens, etc. From what I can see from the boondocks, many birders are listers and this may play into why there is so little discussion. Two final comments: We do have a bird journal kept by a Smith that lived on Tappan before it was a lake it runs from 1910-1920. You have expressed interest in historical records in the past and I will look up species or copy it for you if you would like. The osprey on Tappan do nest on a tower, they have avoided the platform that was built to keep them off the tower. The eagle nest is less than one mile form the osprey nest. I have never noticed any altercation between the two, perhaps there is enough carp to go around! Scott Pendleton ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. Additional discussions can be found in our forums, at www.ohiobirds.org/forum/. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]