These responses are not surprising, based on two drownings in Columbus quarries off of Dublin Rd. between the end of May and mid June 2010. -----Original Message----- From: Ohio birds [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bill Whan Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 4:39 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [Ohio-birds] Our quarry in the quarries The bureaucratic responses exemplified in the two recent messages quoted in part below are not surprising, unfortunately. What business with a legal department would allow strangers on its property just to look at birds, with all the potential liabilities involved? If asked, the folks who run airports, quarries, farms, etc. are likely--and let us admit, understandably--to ask why they should expose themselves to lawsuits from birders who might get hurt on their properties, or the possibility they might be terrorist scouts, or animal-rights activists investigating on behalf of a suit, economic rivals seeking advantages by spying, etc., etc. They don't see any advantage to be gained by welcoming birders, only disadvantages. Most of these properties might allow negotiated presences of researchers, preferably sponsored by universities, etc., or even scheduled limited birding events involving good publicity for their firms, but they are not, even if implored, likely to welcome the birding public in a general way. No doubt there are ways to look at birds on private property by viewing from other less unwelcoming properties--public or private-- nearby, especially if we behave ourselves scrupulously. But if owners of property assert their rights to exclude us, we must comply. If a really important rarity were to appear on private property, it's likely negotiations might allow a few people to be admitted to document it, but general admission might not be possible. Tough on the listers, but good for science. To minimize the possibility of this happening, we need to be aware: keep our distance, use adjacent properties if possible, and behave ourselves in every way. In the words of one of the authors below, we need to avoid wearing out our welcome by pushing the limits. Unfortunately, and to a certain degree understandably, just asking for permission from property owners can result in some paranoid reactions. If we ask we need to be diplomatic, explain the appeal of birds to the general public, extol the good behavior of birders, congratulate property owners for accommodating birds and observers, and obey all restrictions they may nevertheless impose. Still, we may not always be happy with the results. So it goes. Bill Whan Columbus --A friend just called me from the Prairie Lane quarry south of Wooster. There is a sign that says something to the effect of "No Birders Allowed." An employee said that too many people were there over the weekend and walked where they shouldn't have walked. Looks like the welcome has been worn out. ----The folks who run Melvin are friendly to birders but want them to check in at the office and sign a statement with a lot of rules not pertinent to our mission but required by the government. They want us to check in each time we visit and to stay on or near the parking lot. It is a small price for granting us the right to bird on their commercial property. The office is not open on weekends though we have birded there without trouble. ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. Additional discussions can be found in our forums, at www.ohiobirds.org/forum/. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask] ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. Additional discussions can be found in our forums, at www.ohiobirds.org/forum/. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]