Hi, In 2001 I participated in a breeding bird survey of the natural areas of the Holden Arboretum conducted by Carol Skinner: https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/23979/V103N4_098.pdf;jsessionid=352A4364F679C6670B2332DBAC855275?sequence=1 In that study we found Ovenbirds in good numbers on all wooded properties. Since 2007 I have been conducting ongoing breeding bird surveys or the same areas. The protocol we use is different. We use the OBBA2 upgrade protocol and no set transects, instead tracking our variable routes via GPS. Additionally we only survey on weekends where as the Skinner study was conducted every day of the week, and because of the weekday runs, we would start far earlier than we do now, usually at 0500 or 0530 as opposed to 0600 or 0630 now. We do not find Ovenbirds in the numbers we did in 2001. In 26 runs during May, June and July of 2011 we found Ovenbird only 3 times, compared to 15 times during the same time frame in 2001. I wonder how much of this difference is due to less coverage and later starts and how much is due to actual declines in Ovenbird populations on these properties? European earthworms have devastated the leaf litter and herbacious layers in some areas of Holden's forests but most areas are very healthy. Holden's forests tend to be large and unfragmented ranging from a few hundred acres to over 1000 acres in 2 areas. I have sort of noticed this lack of Ovenbirds but did not realize how dramatic it was until was prompted to look at my field notes by David Brinkman's comments. This now has me wondering if there is cause for concern and if we should be looking for Ovenbirds more carefully. Because the OBBA2 data is qualitative and not quantitative It does not help to answer this question, and because of the changes in protocol from the first OBBA it is difficult to draw conclusions over the 2 decades between the studies. Haans Petruschke Kirtland ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. Additional discussions can be found in our forums, at www.ohiobirds.org/forum/. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]