I think Gene's and Ben's testimony establishes all three of us were looking at the same bird, so it got a lot of scrutiny yesterday, and I hope persistent observers will be able to find it again today. It's a real rarity because it's so far south of Lake Erie, and is so late (Peterjohn cites only one spring record, on the same date [!] from Cleveland in 1987). It suggests that we may need to revise some of the expectations we have about the rarity of "rarities," given the extra information that a new plethora of careful observers, and the technology to share observations, provides. Congrats to Alex Hughes for picking this one out and describing it well. I now have no doubt Ben photographed the same bird I stared at for so long. The timing of his looks at it, mine (also Joe Hazelbaker's), and Gene Stauffer's later, match up. I think the mantle color looks OK; possibly Ben was able to take his photos in less than glaring light. This and the other features, some of which--like the whitish tips to the mandibles--I forgot to mention, add up to nothing other than a California gull. As to the "dark eye," the only contention remaining, I maintain that Ben's photos of this bird next to a herring gull do suggest, though not clearly enough, what I observed---a black pupil in a lighter, though darker than pale. iris. My looks were close enough that the bird could have been in my hand. Most photos I looked at (Dunn & Howell, Olsen & Larsson) seem to show an opaque black iris, but Ben's photos 3-5 seem to suggest what I saw, a black spot floating in a contrastingly lighter coffee&cream background. In view of all the other confirmations, I think California seems confirmed as the ID. There may be some age- or subspecies-related (California has a distinct Great Plains subspecies albertaensis--whose range is much closer than the nominate's--that may show some subtle differences) variation in eye color. I urge listers and folks interested in gulls to look for this bird. It has been not hard to find when it's around. Just use a scope to look for any bright clean-looking adult gull in the relatively small flocks of dingy off-plumage ones, then for the darker mantle and the bill coloration. Bill Whan Columbus ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. Additional discussions can be found in our forums, at www.ohiobirds.org/forum/. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]