I often wonder why I subscribe to this list. Then, a post like Sandra Buckles’ gizzard shad explanation shows up and it, along with the weekly lake shore surveys and monthly CVNP and ONWR surveys, keep me coming back. Then, there was Bill Whan's diatribe in which I think he was trying to reinforce the importance of the Ohio Bird Records Committee, as well as ebird bash, of course. Just as it is his nature to write such things, it is my nature to respond. A personality flaw on my my part to be sure and probably a mistake to post, but I cannot help myself. As a dedicated ebirder, I happen to agree with him on ebird’s main strength- tracking changes in abundance, distribution and migration of common species. Actually, if one reads ebird’s website, their mission is precisely this concept. It works best when the same area is covered week after week, month after month, and year after year. The rest is fluff, marketing if you will. Marketing that has worked quite well in furthering their actual mission. Listing bemuses me but if it gets people looking, great for the birds! If it becomes a competition that keeps people looking, even better for the birds! As for the criticisms? I do agree that ebird could make some changes in the rarity department. Perhaps when a species is searched, there could be a yellow marker for “pending acceptance of OBRC” or a black marker for “not accepted.” Mr. Fazio would tell you that unaccepted records are findable on ebird. However, they are no more findable to the average person than OBRC records. Accepting records that fall outside of the expected is certainly a time consuming and occasionally thankless job performed by reviewers across the country. Mr. Fazio wrote me once, “Although I believe you heard what you said you heard, twenty years from now when these records are reviewed, as one who has sat on such committees, it would be better if you added more detail of the sounds you actually heard.” (A saw-whet owl I had calling from my front yard in September) Seems like a reasonable policy to me. I cannot comment on the validity of Mr. Whan’s assertion that ebird is not accepting previously accepted historical records. I find it difficult to believe that if he entered the missing 30 or so species from ebird’s Franklin County data base along with when they were accepted, that the ebird reviewer would not accept them. The reality is ebird is only as good and complete as the data that gets entered. A comment that holds true for the past, present and future. Ebird is not the perfect system but it is getting improving all the time. As one who serves on several volunteer committees, I am not in the habit of criticizing such committees. However, since Mr. Whan is, or was, on the OBRC and I think, once one fleeces out the anti-ebird bias and apparent disdain for listing, his point was rare birds need reviewed by the OBRC, I am going to make an exception. OBRC- necessary and relevant? I do believe it is necessary and would encourage everyone to submit their records. I do, even when I know there is no way some will be accepted. I think even unaccepted records should be part of the permanent record. Of course, I am currently rather hypocritical in this manner since I have not submitted my last two Raven sightings to them. Why? Well I have no idea if the first sighting was accepted, let alone the 2nd, 3rd and 4th. Couple this fact with the fact that between Scott Albaugh and me the Raven sightings for 2012 were into the teens, I have come to think that the ravens aren’t so rare, but the birders were ravens live are. Relevant is another question. There has not been an online update on their actions since April of 2011, coming two years. I cannot recall any updates appearing in the Cardinal since I have been a member, I could be mistaken on this one. I am not a member of the committee, nor do I have the experience or knowledge or ability to be one, and I am not a member of the OOS board and therefore have no direct knowledge on what is going on. However, the OBRC has to change if it is to remain relevant. How many times under the species reports in the Cardinal does it say, “No data on this sighting was submitted to the OBRC. Please submit your sightings.” If records are not being submitted people do not see value in the service. It has to be more responsive and its findings more accessible. In short, it has to market itself to remain viable and relevant in the future. Marketing is a concept that many with a scientific bent have hard time accepting, but it is necessary in today’s birding world. I have lots of ideas on how to accomplish this but this counter diatribe has gone on too long already. ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. Additional discussions can be found in our forums, at www.ohiobirds.org/forum/. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]