Ned Keller asked in a post here the day before yesterday about Plegadis ibises "Does anyone have a link to an image of ANY hybrid that is actually known to be such? I don't mean just a bird that looks intermediate, but a bird from a hybrid nest that was banded as a chick, an adult identified by DNA, or any other source of actual positive knowledge of its identity." Fair question. Vic Fazio, in a customarily rambling response, admits he does not, referring to several of the key papers Jack Stenger cites in his quoted post. Grzybowski's photos are very helpful in illustrating the variations we encounter in these ibises (he carefully uses the word "groups" to characterize them), but do not answer Ned's question, which involves whether any number of even the finest photographs, descriptions, or lengthy observations can, all by themselves, always tell us the identity of the species involved. Vic mentions that many blood samples have been collected over the past few seasons, but any answers to this question seem not to have been made public. So the answer, based on what's been reported, seems to be "no." Take the photos at http://www.pbase.com/joe_grzybowski/ibis_heads , remove the captions, and shuffle them. Throw in some photos of the birds' legs, too, if you want. You will see where the handy notion "apparent hybrid Plegadis ibis" comes from. If you want more of this kind of fun, throw in the possibility of back-crosses, or--at the other extreme--the chance there's only a single variable species involved! Palmer, for example, as late as 1962 regarded glossy and white-faced as subspecies (1:515-522). Ned, and I, and Vic, and many others have repeatedly been asked to identify ibises described and photographed (seldom as well as Grzybowski's) in Ohio, and it is a frustrating task. That's when the "apparent hybrid ibis" moniker comes in handy. The "apparent" part, frankly, is spin made necessary by the difficulties involved. One study might help, it occurs to me. Has anyone examined a lot of museum specimens to chart how these "apparent" birds have increased in numbers over the past century? This might provide some hints... As uncertain as before, Bill Whan ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. Additional discussions can be found in our forums, at www.ohiobirds.org/forum/. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]