Hi all: It's been an interesting conversation about Trumpeter Swans in Ohio and the practice of keeping lists. A couple of my thoughts on the issue as it seems to wind down: First, birding is primarily a hobby for the majority of us. Part of the fun is keeping track of what you see. For some folks with a competitive bent, the issue of "countability" is paramount, whereas for others, it's simply fun to check off a mark on a bird list. Both are equally valid ways to keep track of what birds you see. I would hate to think that anyone is feeling bad about counting an Ohio Trumpeter Swan on their personal list because of the modern population's introduced status and that there are people who don't count it because of that. The folks who aren't counting the bird are likely members of the American Birding Association (ABA), and submit their yearly and life lists for publication or at the Listing Central website the ABA maintains. To make it fair, it is expected that all ABA members participating in list submitting will adhere to the guidelines of what's countable -thus, the reason we don't include Trumpeter Swans on our Ohio life lists. If you don't participate in such things, then I would expect that you can (and should!) count birds anyway that brings you joy. (On a related note, there was a nice article last year in Birding, I think, that addressed the whole counting issue in a similar vein (The example bird was California Condor). The author made the point that seeing the released condors in the wild, even though not technically countable for an ABA list,was one of the best birds he's seen in his life. I expect I would have the same experience upon seeing a condor! ) As for Trumpeter Swans: Kimba brought up how one distinguishes between a wild migrant and a bird from the introduced population. Part of the problem is that the chances of a truly wild Trumpeter Swan occurring in Ohio these days is pretty low; and of course the other part is that it would be nigh-impossible to determine its origin (unless the bird was banded and you were able to record the band number, and track the bird back to a wild population. Then you could say you have Trumpeter Swan on your list and all the listers will be green with envy). However, I would encourage people who use eBird and report birds to listserves and other places of record to keep track of the trumpeters you see, since part of determining whether or not the population is expanding is recording where the species is seen and in what numbers. As I told another person, for me, I just have to subtract "1" from my eBird totals for the state and certain counties before submitting any lists to the ABA! Good birding, and keep scrutinizing swans! Andy Sewell Columbus, Ohio ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Please consider joining our Society, at www.ohiobirds.org/site/membership.php. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]