Most birders have agreed on comparing their various lists by recognizing only those birds that are of wild origin and observed in person free and unrestrained, as well as correctly identified as to species. Most of us don't count the chukars or sharp-tailed grouse we may see here. First of all, a count of 150 trumpeter swans at Killdeer Plains seems too large to me. You might be able to round up that many if you gathered together most of the introduced Ohio population, leaving out the large number of migrant tundra swans that gather at various spots--like KPWA-- in Ohio in early winter. Silent trumpeter and tundra swans are devilishly difficult to discriminate in the field without direct comparisons. Ohio is only one among several Midwestern states and provinces that were persuaded in the '90s by waterfowl enthusiasts to foster populations of trumpeters. While some of their populations introduced in the state have winked out, several remain, including at Killdeer Plains WA. Their numbers have not changed much, and they have not independently enlarged their Ohio range. There is no evidence wild trumpeters ever nested in Ohio, and verifiable records of migrant trumpeters in the good old days before humans started introducing alien species (or stopped wiping out native swans for the feather trade--a trumpeter swan has more feathers than any other bird species) are very hard to come by. The Ohio checklist does not recognize these birds as established. Despite protections, their population has not grown in a normal anticipated way, and has winked out in certain areas and required artificial translocations in others. Unlike wild trumpeters, they do not undertake normal seasonal migrations. Trumpeter swans are of course established native birds in North America, and are known to have occurred here in small numbers as migrants back before their nearby populations were largely wiped out, but there are no verified records since then. There are a number of archaeological finds of swan bones from Ohio. If you want to count one, the closest wild native birds are hundreds of miles away, and well worth the trip. On the other hand, a lot of the Killdeer birds are easy to approach, and will gladly accept potato chips. Bill Whan Columbus On 12/7/2013 5:41 PM, Jeff Harvey wrote: > Recent discussions among various birders on the countability of > Trumpeters has me confused. Today a report of 150 Trumpeters at > Killdeer was posted on the listserv. Under the assumption that the > identification is correct, why are these birds not countable? > > The records committee bird list says that records only up to the year > 1900 have been accepted and that an introduction program began in > 1996. Am I to believe that the birds seen today are decendents from > introduced Ohio birds? If so, would these birds constitute an > established species in Ohio as is indicated in the records committee > checklist or not? The checklist seems to indcate that once > established they would be countable. > > Even if these birds are migrants, why are they not countable? We > count migrants all the time. > > How will we know when the species is established and countable? > > Jeff Harvey Mahoning County > ______________________________________________________________________ Ohio-birds mailing list, a service of the Ohio Ornithological Society. Please consider joining our Society, at www.ohiobirds.org/site/membership.php. Our thanks to Miami University for hosting this mailing list. You can join or leave the list, or change your options, at: listserv.muohio.edu/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=OHIO-BIRDS Send questions or comments about the list to: [log in to unmask]