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Subject:
From:
Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Thu, 30 Nov 2023 12:34:39 -0800
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Labeling these noun clauses, etc. is of course, the traditional 
terminology, but those labels are potentially misleading. These are 
fused relatives (in the terminology of CGEL), and this means they are 
grammatically speaking noun _phrases_ (which contain clauses). I'm not 
going to defend that analysis here (see CGEL Chapter 12 for the 
details), but it appears to me a more adequate description than the 
traditional one.

Recognizing "what it was" as a NP makes the relationship to "we were 
doing" fairly straightforward. The latter is an ordinary relative clause 
and functions as a modifier to the fused relative/NP (compare "what it 
was [that] we were doing" with "the activity [that] we were doing").

On 11/30/2023 11:21 AM, Scott Woods wrote:
> Thanks.
>
> I'm really interested in the relationship between "what it was" and 
> "what we were doing." These function together as a noun clause. But we 
> could also say "if we knew what we were doing" or "if we knew what it 
> was." There are two clauses within the noun clause. What is the 
> structure?
>
> Scott
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 11:16:21 AM MST, Sergio Pizziconi 
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
> I agree with the DirObj reading of the subordinate.
> Then, since the first part could be rewritten as "if we knew what we 
> were doing was...", it could be extraposition with "it" as dummy subject.
> Finally, "would it? " has been variously labeled, but I use "question 
> tag" as it reverses the polarity of the statement seeking for agreement.
> Sergio
>
>
> Il gio 30 nov 2023, 18:44 Gay Claiborne <[log in to unmask]> 
> ha scritto:
>
>     Not an adverb clause; rather, it’s a noun clause functioning as
>     direct object of the verb “knew.”
>
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>>     On Nov 30, 2023, at 11:54 AM, Scott Woods
>>     <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>     Dear List,
>>     /
>>     /
>>     What is going on in the bold section of the adverb clause below?
>>     Specifically, how are the two clauses related to each other?
>>
>>     Also, how would you explain the "would it?" part of the sentence?
>>
>>     /If we knew *what it was we were doing*/, it would not be called
>>     research, would it? (attributed to Albert Einstein)
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>
>>     Scott Woods
>>
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